Thomas Ellis [00:00:02]:

I'm gonna give you knowledge so you don't make the mistakes that people who don't get coaching get. But I have tons of stories that I'm gonna tell you because I've been doing this for 30 years.

 

Shay Cook [00:00:13]:

Yeah.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:00:13]:

Now that's worth something to somebody.

 

Shay Cook [00:00:16]:

Mm-hmm.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:00:17]:

And we have to make sure that we let people know that you didn't wake up and decide to do this. You, you've got education, training. Certificates, clients, all of this. And so they're paying for that now.

 

Shay Cook [00:00:31]:

They're paying for all of that.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:00:32]:

They're paying for all that.

 

Shay Cook [00:00:35]:

Ever felt those awkward vibes when religion and money come up? You're not alone. Welcome to Yahweh's Money, the podcast where we tackle the crossroads of faith and finance. I'm Shay Cook, an accredited financial counselor and the CEO and founder of Crusaders for Change LLC. Join us on our journey as we discuss topics like tithing, saving, and conquering debt through religious perspectives. Let's get started. 

 

Shay Cook [00:01:04]:

Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Yahweh's Money. Today we're going to be talking about selling with spirit, overcoming the salesman stigma with my guest, amazing Mr. Thomas Ellis.

 

Shay Cook [00:01:16]:

So before we get into his introduction, for many of us in business, the word “Sales” feels uncomfortable, even dirty. We worry that promoting our services or standing firm on our pricing might come across as greedy or prideful. But what if sales isn't about pushing a product or service, but help about serving a neighbor? Today we're dismantling the salesman stigma. We're exploring how to grow your business and your bank account with integrity, confidence, and a servant's heart. It's time to see sales not as a compromise of your faith, but as a direct extension of it. So our main scripture today is Colossians 3:23. Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters. This verse shifts our entire perspective on business.

 

Shay Cook [00:02:10]:

When we sell, we aren't just trying to close a deal for a commission. We're serving the Lord by providing a solution. This mindset allows us to be bold and confident because our ultimate boss is God. Excellent salesmanship is actually a form of worship and high-level stewardship. So today we have Mr. Thomas Ellis, who is a master sales coach and speaker known for his mindset videos and his ability to help professionals close deals without losing their souls. I love that. He teaches that sales is a noble profession when done with the right heart.

 

Shay Cook [00:02:50]:

I met him through the Central Maryland Chamber. He has changed my life and he is amazing. Hey, Mr. Thomas, how are you today?

 

Thomas Ellis [00:02:57]:

Hey, Shay, I'm wonderful. As glad as can be to be here finally to, uh, help people change the way that they view sales.

 

Shay Cook [00:03:06]:

Amen. Amen. So tell us more about yourself.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:03:08]:

So I am a, a 40-plus-year sales veteran. Recently, over the last 15 years, I run a small sales consulting business and I only focus in on working with small businesses, helping them to really understand that the word sales is not a dirty word. And if you change the word to help rather than sell, then you have a different mindset of how you should be running the business. The scripture that you gave, you know, all your heart, right? So it's about the mindset in which we want to help people. I tell people all the time, I haven't sold anybody anything in over 100 years, but I help people make decisions in my favor.

 

Shay Cook [00:03:57]:

I love that. And you do that so well. You, myself and my team, and you're a true value add to the chamber and beyond and small businesses. So I love that. After your 40-year career, you're still giving back. Let's get into our rapid-fire questions. 

 

Rapid Fire Questions Jingle [00:04:12]:

Take your seat, let the wisdom inherit. Let's hit the rapid-fire questions, say what's on your spirit.

Take your seat, let the wisdom inherit. Hit the rapid-fire questions, say what's on your spirit. 

 

Shay Cook [00:04:40]:

What is the most common untruth people of faith believe about the act of selling? Oh, that's good. Selling.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:04:47]:

Well, see, most people think that you have to be hardcore, slick, fast-talking, and you're only in it for yourself. I'm only, you know, I'm only in it for me. I don't really care about you. I care about making money. And that's not true because most of the salespeople in the world are consultative salespeople who generally want to help people.

 

Shay Cook [00:05:16]:

Yes, that's good. And you're right, because you see a salesman coming, you're like, oh, I'm going the other way. You know, that's the whole like stigma. There's people out there that really want to build relationship and get to know you and really wanna help you, like you said, and not just sell to you. So that's really good. That's really good.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:05:32]:

That stigma comes from when we think about our first encounter with a salesperson. Mm-hmm. And it's usually the Kirby salesperson knocking on the door.

 

Shay Cook [00:05:44]:

Uh-huh.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:05:44]:

Somebody selling you that $2,500 Kirby.

 

Shay Cook [00:05:47]:

Oh my God. I remember those days. You talking about those days?

 

Thomas Ellis [00:05:51]:

And they wouldn't leave.

 

Shay Cook [00:05:53]:

My mom and dad bought like 3 of those.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:05:53]:

They wouldn't leave unless they— if we do it for $1,750, would you buy it now? Hold on, let me call my boss. And then the other one is buying a car.

 

Shay Cook [00:06:04]:

Yeah.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:06:05]:

And the thing that people don't understand why car salespeople are like they are, because the data says that if you go in, first of all, you are going into a dealership because you want to buy a car. And you look at a car and the salesperson knows if you leave that dealership, the chance of you coming back is less than 10%. That's why they lock the doors.

 

Shay Cook [00:06:31]:

Oh, okay.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:06:33]:

And that's why they get the sales manager involved and everything, because if you or I were selling cars, that's the way that we would do it, because you got a family to feed, a mortgage to pay, and data says don't let them leave. That's our first encounter with a salesperson in most cases, and that's why we have that stigma.

 

Shay Cook [00:06:58]:

That is so good, because when you said that, I first thought of the car salesman, but I remember growing up specifically in Anchorage, Alaska. My dad was stationed at Fort Richardson, and Kirby sellers come out. I don't even know why they were allowed on the base, but that was back in the '80s and the '90s. And yeah, and they were selling those Kirbys and all my parents bought like 2 or 3 or 4 of those things over the years. And yeah, that's crazy. That's a good one. That's good though. All right.

 

Shay Cook [00:07:24]:

In one sentence, how do you define the difference between being pushy and being persistent?

 

Thomas Ellis [00:07:31]:

So one sentence, learn how to be pleasantly persistent by adding value every time you touch that prospect or customer.

 

Shay Cook [00:07:39]:

Ooh, that's a word. As Bethany would've said, those bars. That's good. That's good. We're gonna get into that a little bit later. So when a potential client says no, do you see it as a rejection of your value or a redirection of your energy? This is good because like I said, people on my team feel like it's a rejection of them and it's like, no, it's not. Not necessarily.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:08:02]:

No, it's, it's a redirection of the energy and that's normally the first sign that a sale is in progress. You know, the sale is going, nothing happens until you get that first rejection of no. And no, in my mind, and people that are coached and trend, it means not now. It doesn't mean never, it means not now. So we want to go back and really understand what the issues that they're having and make sure we identify the issues that they need to fix today. That's where that, that can change.

 

Shay Cook [00:08:38]:

I love that because I think that was one of the highlights when we were doing sales coaching was when you told me that it's not now. I'm like, I never thought about it like that. You're taught later in life maybe, and some of them is younger, no period. That's a sentence, a whole sentence, right? And so, but no, it could be just no, not now. And then like you said, go back and see what they really mean. All right, awesome. Well, let's get into our main discussion. Let's talk about this salesman stigma.

 

Shay Cook [00:09:00]:

So, Why do Christians often feel guilty about asking for money and how do we reframe sales as problem solving and service?

 

Thomas Ellis [00:09:09]:

This goes way back because I remember as a youngster asking my mother or dad for $5 or $2 so I can go get ice cream.

 

Shay Cook [00:09:20]:

Mm-hmm.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:09:20]:

You know, and you were like, oh, you kind of buckle up. Mommy, can I have it? And I want to get some ice cream, you know? And, and so we've always been taught that way, that, that when you ask people for money, eh, that's not a good thing. And so I always talk to people about, forget about the money aspect because if you're selling a product or service, at the end they're gonna pay you money.

 

Shay Cook [00:09:48]:

Yeah.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:09:49]:

You, you have to ask for it. You know, if you figure out that, okay, this, does this solve your problem? Yes.

 

Shay Cook [00:09:57]:

Mm-hmm.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:09:57]:

You have my pricing. Yes. What do you want to do next? Well, I'm ready to move forward. Great. I'm gonna send you an invoice.

 

Shay Cook [00:10:07]:

Yeah.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:10:07]:

We're, we're gonna pick a date and we're gonna get started.

 

Shay Cook [00:10:10]:

Mm-hmm.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:10:10]:

We don't have to talk about the money because it's part of the equation.

 

Shay Cook [00:10:15]:

It's part of the equation.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:10:16]:

It's part of the equation. Mm-hmm. I'm not, nobody's in business that's giving away free services. Every service that you buy, you pay something for it. People don't harp on what it costs. They know if you want cable, it's going to be $99, you know, and you're going to pay it every month because you want cable. If you don't want cable, you're not going to pay the $99. So they don't ask you the money.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:10:44]:

That's part of the deal. So people just need to really understand that, don't be afraid. And I had this happen with a lot of nonprofits who their mission is to, to get money. And they're selling, whether they believe it or not.

 

Shay Cook [00:10:59]:

Exactly.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:11:00]:

They're selling their programs to companies, individuals to give them donations. Just take away the money aspect and focus on what their contribution is gonna do to help the community or whatever organization, then you don't have to be concerned with talking about money.

 

Shay Cook [00:11:22]:

But like you said, if you always grown up feeling that way, now it's in the fabric of you, it's in your DNA, and you, it's like you have to retrain your mind. That's where you come in, like with coaching, trying to retrain us, our mindsets around this money thing. Because, you know, I can talk about a product and a solution and a service, But when it gets to the money, you be like, uh, should I put that number on the screen or should I tell that person that number? Because they might be like you said, if they sold, they gonna pay for it. And if they don't want to pay that, we can negotiate.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:11:50]:

Right. And see, and what happens is, is that pricing, I talk with a lot of my clients on pricing. Many of us underprice our products and services. So many of us. And I say, well, why is that price? Well, I don't want to scare them away. And I'm like, well, what do you mean scare them away? I said, If you have shown them that your product and service is going to solve a problem, and you've done your research to say that in this industry for this service, here's the price range. If you're within that price range, you are going to be fine. But you can't have the conversation about the product and then go, and the price is $400.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:12:35]:

Right. If you say, and your investment— and I don't like to say cost.

 

Shay Cook [00:12:41]:

Okay.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:12:41]:

I like to say your investment in this service is going to be $595 or $1,500 or $5,000. We take away the word cost because cost means that there's no return on investment.

 

Shay Cook [00:12:58]:

Oh, yeah.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:12:58]:

When you invest, we invest in products and services to help us do better. Mm-hmm. It's a return on the investment.

 

Shay Cook [00:13:06]:

Return, I was going to say, ROI. Yeah. ROI.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:13:09]:

So when I'm offering a coaching program to somebody, I never say a cost, I say invest. So if you invest $1,000, your return in time is gonna be much more than $1,000.

 

Shay Cook [00:13:23]:

Exactly. Exactly.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:13:24]:

So it's all about the positioning of the word, and it also goes back to the mindset.

 

Shay Cook [00:13:32]:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:13:32]:

And, and that's what I really try to focus people on is the mindset. Talk with confidence when you're talking pricing. People will figure out quickly this person isn't sure about their pricing. So maybe their tone drops 3 decibels.

 

Shay Cook [00:13:49]:

Yeah.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:13:49]:

Mm-hmm. Oh, they're not sure about it.

 

Shay Cook [00:13:50]:

Hmm.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:13:50]:

I'm gonna beat them up on the price. Right.

 

Shay Cook [00:13:54]:

Yeah.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:13:54]:

And, and they end up go, okay, I'll do it for, for that amount.

 

Shay Cook [00:13:59]:

Mm.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:13:59]:

No, no, no, no. And the more confident you are in the product and services and what it does for people, then the more confident you're gonna be about your pricing.

 

Shay Cook [00:14:09]:

I love that. And that's great. What we're gonna talk about next, that's a great segue to how to maintain Christian humility while standing firm on your prices. Why undercharging can actually be poor stewardship of your gifts. And you just said that. I mean, If I'm out here and I know my products and services or my services specifically through Crusaders for Change is worth this price and I keep undercharging, I'm saying that the gifts God gave me, I'm undervaluing him, what he gave me. I'm undervaluing all the work, the education, expertise, education, all that stuff that I experienced that I put into this. And people out here and they really do, they undercut and undercharge because they're so, they, they're just scared.

 

Shay Cook [00:14:49]:

Like you said, they have the confidence is just not there.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:14:52]:

You know, that reminds me when I think about this medical field. When you go in, say you need surgery, and this doctor has been practicing for 10 years. They've gone through I don't know how many schools— Residencies, all that. Residencies, special training, all this. And so, when they say, well, this service is $25,000.

 

Shay Cook [00:15:22]:

Mm-hmm.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:15:22]:

Not only am I paying for the service, but I'm paying for all of the experience that comes with that. Mm-hmm. So when you talk to people about what your services are, you gotta let them know that number one, I've been doing this for quite a while. Mm-hmm. So You're paying for my knowledge. So when I coach people, I say, well, how come it's that price? Because I'm going to give you knowledge so you don't make the mistakes that people who don't get coaching get. But I have tons of stories that I'm going to tell you because I've been doing this for 30 years.

 

Shay Cook [00:16:02]:

Yeah.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:16:02]:

Now that's worth something to somebody. And we have to make sure that we let people know that you didn't wake up and decide to do this. You've got education, training, certificates, clients, all of this. And so they're paying for that now.

 

Shay Cook [00:16:20]:

They're paying for all of that.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:16:21]:

They're paying for all that. And the more that we let them know that you're paying for all that, nobody questions a doctor. I never heard anybody go, hey, doc, you know what? Can you do it for $20,000? Yeah, I can do it, but I ain't gonna close up that valve.

 

Shay Cook [00:16:40]:

I was about to say, you ain't gonna get all the extras, all the perks.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:16:44]:

We can do that, but there'll be no anesthesia.

 

Shay Cook [00:16:46]:

Anesthesia, exactly.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:16:48]:

You can do that. You gotta go home that same day. I'm not checking on you afterwards, right? You're getting all that experience. And I think one of the big problems is, is that people don't explain what they get for that price. I think that's the big issue. They don't explain to people, well, it's $5,000, but you're going to get this, this, this, this, and this. And they go, oh, okay. So if you break all that down, is it worth it, right? I tell people, I say, listen, when you sign up for my program, if I'm doing a a workshop with a company and I say, well, you have 4 or 5 reps and I'm gonna do these 3 workshops, but I'm also gonna come back in 30 days and do a follow-up session.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:17:41]:

Oh, you, you're gonna come back in? Yeah. And that's included in that price. And also, oh, nice. Guess what? I'm gonna also sit down with each one of your reps for 30-minute one-on-one consult. Oh, that's included in the price. Also, I'm going to give each of you an autographed copy of my book that's worth X amount of dollars. Oh, I get that too. So the more you explain to people what they're getting for that price, it makes sense.

 

Shay Cook [00:18:10]:

It does. It does. Oh, that's good. Yeah, a lot of people don't. You just get a— you see a costing, like, what is in this? But if you really break it down, it shows the value. Of it all. Yeah, I love that.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:18:21]:

Wow. The more value you can show somebody, your price becomes irrelevant.

 

Shay Cook [00:18:29]:

Mm.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:18:29]:

You know, and I tell people, I say, when you hear the price objection, it's not that they're balking at the price. They're saying that you haven't shown me the value for that price. Mm. So you gotta go back and help them understand the value. Because like I said, the more value you can show somebody, the price is gonna be, oh, okay, that makes sense.

 

Shay Cook [00:18:55]:

Man, you could tell you an expert, you know your stuff. So what is the practical ways to handle rejection in business without letting it damage your identity in Christ? You know, some people really let this just really eat them up and they're like, I'm not selling again. I'm not a seller. We all selling something, you know, uh, it don't matter if you're doing it professionally, you're doing it personally. Like they said, the kids are the best sellers cuz they put all the emotions in it and stuff. They, come out the womb selling.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:19:18]:

So like, and you nailed it, right? The first thing you said, emotion. Sales is emotional. Mm-hmm. People buy on emotion and they rationalize it with intellect. Think about that. So you get emotionally attached to this service or product. A car is a prime example. So when you walk into the dealership, and I always teach people this, when you walk into the dealership and you say, yeah, I want to look at that vehicle, and you're goo goo and gaga over the vehicle, you're sitting in the car going, woo! That salesperson's going, hey Joe, I got another one, because you're emotionally attached.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:19:58]:

Once you get attached, then you take it on to the demo ride, and that's it. That's it. You come back and say, well, I only want to pay $500 a month. Let me see what I can work on here. And he comes back with $675. Oh, I really can't afford that. $675. End of the day, you, you're walking out of there with a car paying $675.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:20:25]:

Wow.

 

Shay Cook [00:20:25]:

Because you really want it. Because that emotion.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:20:27]:

Because you really want it, you get emotionally attached. Right? That's why I tell people all the time, when you're working with potential clients, the first thing you want to get them to do is want to work with you. The first meeting, when you leave there, they, they gotta be saying, oh my God, I want to work with Shay. I got a vibe with, I think she could help me. After that, if you don't bumble it up, they're buying because you made a connection with them. And sales is all emotion. You tell me something that you bought that you didn't go, oh my God, I gotta have this. Think about anything.

 

Shay Cook [00:21:09]:

Yeah.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:21:09]:

If you want it, the first thing that happens, you get emotionally charged up. Mm-hmm. Man, that is a nice pair of shoes. I gotta get them shoes.

 

Shay Cook [00:21:17]:

Mm-hmm.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:21:17]:

I don't need another pair of blue shoes, but them shoes are nice.

 

Shay Cook [00:21:21]:

Yeah.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:21:22]:

And you buy it.

 

Shay Cook [00:21:23]:

Yep. That's good. That's a good side note for even for clients we're dealing with financially is like, you need to be prepared for that and let go of that emotion before you go buying because then you're gonna overspend. You're going to be in debt and then you're going to have all kinds of other issues. So for our clients that are listening or for potential clients or anybody that's dealing with financial issues, that, that's a part to understand that you go out in these stores, fortunately people are online, but I think that's even more emotionally charged. They, they, you know, at home, they dealing with all kinds of stress and then they get on Amazon and start buying like crazy. They don't even have a salesperson.

Thomas Ellis [00:21:58]:

My personal struggle I'm going through right now. I want a new vehicle. I don't need a new vehicle.

 

Shay Cook [00:22:05]:

Yeah.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:22:06]:

But I'm in love with the Genesis QV80.

 

Shay Cook [00:22:10]:

I saw that the other day on TV.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:22:12]:

My sister's got one. I drove it one time.

 

Shay Cook [00:22:14]:

I said, whoa.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:22:17]:

And I'm struggling because I'm like, mm. And I know if I go to the dealership, it's going to be a done deal. So what do I do? I'm not going to the dealership. 

 

Shay Cook [00:22:28]:

Don’t go. Stay away. Stay away.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:22:30]:

'Cause every time I see that vehicle, I go, man, that's a vehicle for me. So we all have those struggles. So for me, I'm not going into the dealership 'cause I know if I go in there, I'm gonna end up walking out there with a brand new car. And that's not what I even want to do right now.

 

Shay Cook [00:22:52]:

Yeah, I hear you and I understand. I understand completely. My car be 10 years old this year and I'm like, I'm good. It's still driving. It's good. And when I go get it fixed at the dealer and I'm like looking at them cars, I'm like, them nice, but nope. I have self-control because I ain't trying to— I hadn't had a payment for like 4 or 5 years. I'm good.

 

Shay Cook [00:23:12]:

I don't need that.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:23:13]:

Exactly right. Exactly. Exactly.

Shay Cook [00:23:15]:

So how do you use your influence to help people make the right decision for their lives, not just for their bottom line?

 

Thomas Ellis [00:23:22]:

So I always wanna think about, I try to get to understand what is, what are they trying to accomplish? What are their goals? You know, if you are a small business owner, what is your goal for this year? Mm-hmm. What do you really want to accomplish and what do you have in place that's gonna help you accomplish that?

 

Shay Cook [00:23:41]:

Mm-hmm.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:23:41]:

And what are you missing to help you accomplish that? And then I go back, tell 'em, say, okay, This is the goal.

 

Shay Cook [00:23:49]:

Mm-hmm.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:23:50]:

And we have to stay on track. Cause the other thing is that I make sure that their goals are attainable. For example, I was talking to a client recently, brand new client, and I, part of my intake form is, what are your goals for this year? Revenue goals. Uh-huh. And they said a million dollars.

 

Shay Cook [00:24:09]:

Mm-hmm.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:24:09]:

I said, great. So on our first call. I said, when you work with me, I'm gonna give it to you real. I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. I said, but help me understand where you got this million dollar number from. She said, well, I just thought it would be a nice number to have. I said, well, that's great, but guess what's gonna happen? You're not gonna sell a million dollars because you don't have the prospects, the proposals, the activity to generate. So now come November of next year, you're going to be frustrated and disappointed.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:24:43]:

You're going to feel disappointed, unaccomplished, negative, depressed because you didn't do— I mean, you did a quarter of $1 million. Okay, well, that's great, but you had a goal of $1 million that you set with no guidance or nothing. So you're frustrated.

 

Shay Cook [00:25:02]:

Yeah.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:25:03]:

Now you're really going, I'm a failure, right? And that's because you picked the wrong number. You, you didn't have guidance to what that number should be. And then I said, well, what's your average sale like? And I said that, so do you realize that you have to sell 50, I thought it was some crazy number, like 75 deals this year to meet that number.

 

Shay Cook [00:25:26]:

Yeah.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:25:27]:

Meet that number. That's 6 a month. Mm. That's 1 every week.

 

Shay Cook [00:25:32]:

That's not realistic.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:25:33]:

Not realistic.

 

Shay Cook [00:25:34]:

You gotta build those relationships. You gotta, yeah, you gotta, you can't just go in and this ain't no shoe store.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:25:39]:

No. Well, I always try to help people understand I'm gonna help you select reasonable revenue goals. So at the end of the year, you are fired up, excited because you met those goals. That gives you the energy and the drive to do better next year.

 

Shay Cook [00:26:00]:

Yeah. That is so good. Yeah. Because I had the same issue.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:26:04]:

The other thing I tell people from my experiences, when you have a great first quarter, you're going to have a great year.

 

Shay Cook [00:26:12]:

Oh.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:26:13]:

And when I was in corporate America, I ran a large sales organization and we put a lot of emphasis on the first quarter. Because if you have a great first quarter, you're ahead of the game. People's mindsets are positive, energy is flowing, the office is, is buzzing.

 

Shay Cook [00:26:32]:

Yeah.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:26:32]:

But I've been around when we didn't have a good first quarter.

 

Shay Cook [00:26:37]:

Mm-hmm.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:26:38]:

And by the middle of the year, people gave up. We're never going to make that number.

 

Shay Cook [00:26:43]:

Mm-hmm.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:26:43]:

Because we have quotas, and you're constantly climbing up that hill, and you get tired, and you give up. So when I'm working with my clients, and I do this now, I make sure that my first quarter is so stacked with things that the year, I'm, I'm having real fun.

 

Shay Cook [00:27:05]:

Mm-hmm.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:27:05]:

Because I'm not worried about the revenue number because we had a good first quarter. That's my secret. I tell to all small businesses, have a great first quarter, you have a great year.

 

Shay Cook [00:27:16]:

I love that. I love that. That's really good because I know when I started this business in 2016, I started meeting with some people at some government agencies and stuff like that. And they're like, oh, just let's go ahead and think really big. Think outside the box, which is good to be the dream, right? You think you're going to go 3 times more than that next year. And I did that for like 4 or 5 years in a row and I never met that goal. And I was getting very discouraged. Like, this ain't realistic.

 

Shay Cook [00:27:42]:

But then I started going through the forecasting, and like you said, the guidance and really looking at our numbers and all of that. What's, what's the reality here, right? What's really attainable? What's a SMART goal? And I was like, okay, well then I just put, just threw that out. I was like, I can't do that anymore. And then I went through the Goldman Sachs program and they taught us about that as well. So this year I was like, nah, we gonna, we know what we're trying to accomplish. And thank God with AI too, now you can put it in AI and be like, uh, that's very aggressive.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:28:08]:

Exactly. Exactly. Simply, you can go, hey, my goal is $100K, my average price is $2,000, how many sales? Okay, 50 sales. Okay, so how many people do I have to talk to to make that?

 

Shay Cook [00:28:25]:

Exactly. Exactly.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:28:26]:

How many meetings do I have to have every day, every week to make that goal? Because I like to break things down to the ridiculous.

 

Shay Cook [00:28:36]:

Yeah.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:28:37]:

And the ridiculous is every day, how many people do I need to talk to? How many meetings do I have to have every week? And I did this years ago and I ran my sales organization. We used to have telemarketing blitz days and they all on the phone and everybody had different numbers, right? So some people can make 8 calls and get a meeting. Some make 20 calls and you get a meeting. So it varies. So after 6 months, we knew every person, what their ratio was.

 

Shay Cook [00:29:07]:

Oh, okay.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:29:08]:

Right? So now if you are a person that takes 10 calls to make an appointment, you know every day if I make 10 calls, I'm going to get appointment. Yeah, some days you'll get 0, but some days you'll get 3. So it all averages out. But we knew the ratio and then we also knew how many appointments it take to make a sale. For us back then, it took 3 appointments to make a sale. We also knew that for every sale, the average person bought 4 units.

 

Shay Cook [00:29:42]:

Oh, okay.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:29:43]:

So now if he had a quota of 50, we knew how to back those numbers down. Yeah, this is what you need to do every day to do those numbers, because sales is It's part science. And that's the, the science of it, figuring out those numbers. And once you figure out the science, you can figure out the other stuff.

 

Shay Cook [00:30:06]:

Oh, I love that. That's some real gems you dropping there for free. So we appreciate that. That is really good. And I, like I said, I've been there and now I'm starting to have the data and the support to really get to what's the reality, what's a realistic goal, revenue goal, profits., for the business. So, and also I would say even for personal budgeting and, you know, you can really, if you start off your first quarter with good savings and all that, not a lot of debt from the last year and all that and really plan, you have a really good year with being able to meet all the other goals you have. So I think that can go professionally and personally.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:30:42]:

Absolutely. If you say my goal this year is to save $5,000. Okay. I want to save $5,000. Okay. So what is that every month?

 

Shay Cook [00:30:50]:

That's $400 a month.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:30:51]:

Mm-hmm. Let's say so if you know that you gotta put $400 a month away, cuz the goal is $5,000. Mm-hmm. Some months you'll be able to put more cuz maybe you, you got a windfall or something.

 

Shay Cook [00:31:06]:

Mm-hmm. Uh, bonus, tax return, something.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:31:09]:

Yeah. Deduction on your electric bill. Yeah. But you're able to save cuz you know, I gotta save $400 a month. And that becomes part of your budget. Yeah. Mortgage, BGE, whatever, savings, $400. And then at the end of the year, you made $5,000 easy.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:31:32]:

Rather than saying, well, I won't put $400 away this month, I won't do it this month. So now month 3, you're already in the hole $1,200. Exactly.

 

Shay Cook [00:31:42]:

You don't have— you didn't put any in.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:31:45]:

Exactly. Now you're frustrated, depressed because, but if you just do a little bit every month, it just adds up.

 

Shay Cook [00:31:52]:

Yep. And that's what God wants us to do, to trust and believe and plan and make it plain and follow it, you know? So, wow, this is good. This is good. We could talk about this all day, Thomas. So a study by Salesforce found that 85% of prospects are dissatisfied with their experience with sales professionals. However, 79% of business buyers say it's absolutely critical or very important to interact with a salesperson who is a trusted advisor. This represents a massive opportunity for people of faith to fill the gap with honesty and integrity. So our final thoughts today is overcoming the salesman stigma is about realizing that if you truly believe in the value you provide, it is an act of love to offer it to others.

 

Shay Cook [00:32:36]:

You can be the top performer in your field and a humble servant of God at the same time. When your sales process is rooted in truth and service, your financial success becomes a testimony to God's favor and diligent stewardship. So Thomas, any final thoughts? Let us know how people can follow you.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:32:55]:

So final thoughts, once again, this has been awesome, spectacular. We can talk for 5 hours. 5 hours. But at the, at the end of the day, I want people to walk away with some key things. Number one is you have to change your, your mindset. So the way that you think about doing things, and you need help from somebody that is an expert. Mm-hmm. That can help you make that mind shift.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:33:25]:

The second thing is that make sure that you surround yourself with people that are going to encourage and motivate you. Third thing is that make sure that you're engaging and educating your prospects on how you can help them. Remember I talked about earlier, we're not selling anything, we're helping people solve problems.

 

Shay Cook [00:33:50]:

Mm-hmm.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:33:50]:

Fourth thing that we talk about is the pricing, right? Don't be afraid to give them the price. Mm-hmm. With the same bravado that you talk about the benefits. Focus on the benefits and, and the problems that your product solves and explain to them what they getting with that price. And the final thing is that always, always give thanks to the Holy Father for allowing you to have the knowledge and expertise to share with others., and you have to do this openly. I do a lot of free stuff. I do a lot of free workshops, webinars, things, because part of my gift, I realize, is to help small businesses. Mm-hmm.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:34:41]:

So I'm following my orders to share my gifts and talents with mainly small business owners, and sometimes I work with larger organizations to do free webinars. Don't be afraid to help others. And give away something for free because it comes back to you tenfold. Amen. Amen. How can you contact me? Well, you can find me on LinkedIn, which is my— I'm a LinkedIn junkie. Yes, you are. You can find me, you can contact me on the phone.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:35:12]:

You can call me. I pick up my phone.

 

Shay Cook [00:35:18]:

301-343-0001.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:35:19]:

And you can find me, you can email me at T-L-I-S at EWC Consultants with an S.com. Thank you and God bless.

 

Shay Cook [00:35:31]:

Oh, I love that. Thank you. Thank you, Thomas. And so I would say, add into the great advice that Thomas just shared, audit your current pricing or investment and sales pitch or help pitch and ask yourself, am I charging a fair price or investment that reflects the value God has given me to offer. If not, adjust it this week. And as well, before your next sales call or meeting, like Thomas saying, pray, ask God, Lord, let me see this person as you see them and let my service be a solution to their need. Remember, you are working for God, for him. So thank you, Thomas, for another opportunity to share with the world your amazingness, all of your expertise., and we really appreciate you.

 

Thomas Ellis [00:36:16]:

Thank you. Thank you, Shay.

 

Shay Cook [00:36:17]:

Take care, everybody. And everybody have a great day. We'll talk to you soon. 

 

Thomas Ellis [00:36:20]

Take care. 

 

Shay Cook [00:36:23]:

A big thank you for listening to this episode. We hope you found today's chat about the intersection of religion and money insightful. We would love to hear your feedback. Hit that subscribe button or follow the podcast, and please feel free to leave us a review.

 

Shay Cook [00:36:39]:

For the latest Yahweh's Money content, visit us at CrusadersTheNumber4Change.org or find us anywhere you listen to podcasts. Until next time, stay financially fit and spiritually inspired. And remember, it's always better Yahweh's way.